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Post by Plant Feathers on May 9, 2013 9:44:05 GMT -5
I finished OFF and wanted to talk about it without getting off topic on the RPG Maker thread. XD
I'm gonna admit that sometimes I get burned out on battling things over and over in video games, so I ended up ditching the game and using a "Let's Play" on youtube to finish it. *lame* But, yeah, I know the ending, and I've seen both endings, and that's the important part. (And basically, when it was over, I kinda sat there a minute, like, "Ho-ly crap.")
I've been thinking about it a lot, and coming up with various theories and such. I was just really curious to know what you guys' theories are.
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theredgunslinger
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This world is made of love and peace! ^_^ (Vash RPer and general fangirl)
Posts: 46
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Post by theredgunslinger on May 9, 2013 12:27:50 GMT -5
Oh gosh I could talk all day about this game. I have a lot of theories and couldn't really say which is my favorite, personally. heybattabattaswing.tumblr.com/ Though this blog has certainly influenced my thoughts on the game. I just love everything about this blog omg. It's where four-eyed batter comes from too. I'd like to hear your theories!
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Post by Plant Feathers on May 9, 2013 15:42:57 GMT -5
I'm gonna have to check that blog out in more detail later. I peeked in for a minute, but I'm slipping online while at work, and I thought, "I better get off of here, or it's going to make me laugh and I'll get in trouble." XD
One thought I had was on what you said about purity becoming corrupted. I think that, with the little religious references dropped in there, you could almost draw religious commentary from it. Perhaps the idea of God creating the world which is destined to become corrupted, and then punishing the world for it's corruption. Don't know if that's a message the creator intended to send, but it's a thought I had.
Mostly, though, I've been coming up with headcanons and explanations for why the Batter did what he did. I wonder if perhaps he had been slowly going insane for a while (I have a few ideas on why), and his son picked up on the idea that something wasn't quite right with papa and gained an instinctive disliking of him. Of course, the Batter picked up on his son's feelings for him, and it only made him worse. Eventually the Queen became worried about her child's safety and took him away, and losing his son altogether is what tipped him over the edge.
I feel like there was a point where he starts losing touch with reality. I don't think the baby-shaped specters are real at all, but are hallucinations brought on by his angst against his baby son. (Or perhaps they are real, but he's seeing something different than what they actually look like.) And then "the room" is definitely the trippiest part of the game, and I suspect he was wandering a perfectly normal, quiet house, but his insanity was made worse by being in the place he associates with his son.
And then I also have the theory that the Batter was an absolute schizophrenic psycho from the beginning and that quite a lot of what happens in the game isn't actually real, or is a skewed version of reality. What gave me the idea was the final battle from the Judge's point of view, when you see the Batter as a monster. I thought, "What if the Batter is still human, but he looks like a monster because that's the Judge's opinion of him." And then, "What if the whole game is skewed to show the view things according to how the Batter sees them?" For example, what if there's actually no such thing as a burnt? They're still normal people, but something about them flips a switch in the Batter's brain, and his schizophrenic mind believes he's dealing with something creepy and hostile and that needs "purifying." Who knows, maybe he's hopped up on "sugar." (I'm kind of joking, but not really.) Another idea along those lines is that the Judge isn't real, but a hallucinated embodiment of the Batter's own judgement. At first, the Judge is supportive, but after the Batter kills his family, the Judge returns to condemn him, which might be his own conscience, some still-sane part of him, that realizes what he's done is wrong.
Another, much more off-the-wall theory, (and a sadder one, really) is that this is all secretly from the Judge's point of view. The events of the story have already happened in the past. He never fully recovered from losing his brother, plus being alone has taken it's toll on him. He starts reliving past events through a dream or hallucination or something like that. When you first meet him, he expresses the opinion that since he's the only living thing around, you must be a hallucination, and he's exactly right. He introduces himself as "the Judge" because some part of him knows that he'll eventually judge and condemn you for your actions. And the reason the game has two endings is because the Judge has lived through the ending in which he killed the Batter, but sometimes imagines a different ending, wishing that the Batter had killed him along with everyone else.
Okay, done rambling for now. XD
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theredgunslinger
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This world is made of love and peace! ^_^ (Vash RPer and general fangirl)
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Post by theredgunslinger on May 9, 2013 17:43:51 GMT -5
I'm gonna have to check that blog out in more detail later. I peeked in for a minute, but I'm slipping online while at work, and I thought, "I better get off of here, or it's going to make me laugh and I'll get in trouble." XD One thought I had was on what you said about purity becoming corrupted. I think that, with the little religious references dropped in there, you could almost draw religious commentary from it. Perhaps the idea of God creating the world which is destined to become corrupted, and then punishing the world for it's corruption. Don't know if that's a message the creator intended to send, but it's a thought I had. Mostly, though, I've been coming up with headcanons and explanations for why the Batter did what he did. I wonder if perhaps he had been slowly going insane for a while (I have a few ideas on why), and his son picked up on the idea that something wasn't quite right with papa and gained an instinctive disliking of him. Of course, the Batter picked up on his son's feelings for him, and it only made him worse. Eventually the Queen became worried about her child's safety and took him away, and losing his son altogether is what tipped him over the edge. I feel like there was a point where he starts losing touch with reality. I don't think the baby-shaped specters are real at all, but are hallucinations brought on by his angst against his baby son. (Or perhaps they are real, but he's seeing something different than what they actually look like.) And then "the room" is definitely the trippiest part of the game, and I suspect he was wandering a perfectly normal, quiet house, but his insanity was made worse by being in the place he associates with his son. I've seen the part about the secretaries before, and I have to say, I agree. Those things definitely sound like guilt for killing his infant child to me. And I do think the religious names have some meaning in the game. Especially considering you use the meat of demons to heal yourself of impurities, but the things you use to actually kill impurities are holy. There's gotta be something too that, but I haven't really thought of a way to piece it all together yet. I also really support the batter being insane theory. I mean... he just does not emotionally connect to anything he's presented with. Not even in the end game. The only time he even gets remotely angry is when he's running for his life... those aren't the emotional reactions of a normally functioning person. On a related note, you know those whispering voices? The ones in the main map? Someone recently translated them. Turns out they're all saying things like "There he is..." "is he going to do it?" "What is he doing?" etc. So apparently all the voices are gossipping about the batter's plans. Just who the heck are they though? That's my question... @_@
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Moogy
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Hopes to Ace Trigunometry
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Post by Moogy on May 9, 2013 19:40:33 GMT -5
I've gotten familiar with this game over the past month, and know a LOT who've gotten into it. I am not much of an RPG gamer person, but it sure looked intriguing.
And after watching a lets play of it... yes, it was indeed intriguing, and awesomely so.
That said... just wow. That whole story... and that ending...
... as wimpy as it is to say it, I'm kinda glad I didn't play this. I love the whole concept, the artwork, music, and story, but at the same time... with that whole reveal... I really think I would've been pretty disturbed, if not heartbroken if I had played it all the way through...
It's also a little unsettling to me that I've been jamming to that final fight theme for MONTHS. NEVER KNOWING WHERE IT WAS FROM. D8
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Post by Plant Feathers on May 9, 2013 20:02:18 GMT -5
Aaah, the whispery voices were creepy creepy creepy! I did not like those at all. And knowing what they're saying makes it worse. <_< Although, now that I think about it, the game has a very fragile fourth wall (which comes crashing down almost every time Zachary shows up *high fives Zach*) so it almost makes me feel like the voices are real life spectators watching the fictional Batter play through the game. I'm sure that's not at all who they're intended to be, but hey, I like messing with the fourth wall.
Speaking of Zachary, I feel like there's a class of character who knows good and well they're fictional, and, for me, that's like holding a "Get out of logical explanations free" card. I don't have an explanation for who he is or how he fits into anything, and I'm not even going to try. He's like Kuroneko-sama. He's everywhere, and you just go with it. XD
Although I've noticed in fanart that he's shown with a weirdly shaped mouth, and the funny thing is that I took a good look at him and thought that he had no face at all, but was wearing a mask with eyes on it. What other people are taking for a mouth, I thought was the bottom edge of the mask. Now I'm kind of curious to know who's right.
And, yeah, I'm glad I moved over to a Let's Play by the end, too. I think I would've gotten to the "battle" with his son and been like, "Nope, nope, nope, nope, nope, can't do it!"
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theredgunslinger
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This world is made of love and peace! ^_^ (Vash RPer and general fangirl)
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Post by theredgunslinger on May 10, 2013 1:20:05 GMT -5
Aaah, the whispery voices were creepy creepy creepy! I did not like those at all. And knowing what they're saying makes it worse. <_< Although, now that I think about it, the game has a very fragile fourth wall (which comes crashing down almost every time Zachary shows up *high fives Zach*) so it almost makes me feel like the voices are real life spectators watching the fictional Batter play through the game. I'm sure that's not at all who they're intended to be, but hey, I like messing with the fourth wall. Speaking of Zachary, I feel like there's a class of character who knows good and well they're fictional, and, for me, that's like holding a "Get out of logical explanations free" card. I don't have an explanation for who he is or how he fits into anything, and I'm not even going to try. He's like Kuroneko-sama. He's everywhere, and you just go with it. XD Although I've noticed in fanart that he's shown with a weirdly shaped mouth, and the funny thing is that I took a good look at him and thought that he had no face at all, but was wearing a mask with eyes on it. What other people are taking for a mouth, I thought was the bottom edge of the mask. Now I'm kind of curious to know who's right. And, yeah, I'm glad I moved over to a Let's Play by the end, too. I think I would've gotten to the "battle" with his son and been like, "Nope, nope, nope, nope, nope, can't do it!" Those things are really fucking creepy... I feel like they're just sitting there watching in fear, like uncomfortable denizens in a movie theatre where they've heard some spoilers and are just sitting there going "is it true?" That reminds me though... doesn't the queen attack in whispers? I wonder if that's somehow related. The voices do sound similar to her own voice as well. Yeah, I got no idea with Zacharie. Though I have heard some theories that he was a previous hero, theories that he was the toad king (his mask is, admittedly, rather frog like. And concept art often shows him with a sword, like in the story), and my personal favorite, theories that he's an angel. His name does appear to come from Zachariah. And a ton of concept art shows him with wings! (You're right about it being a mask. Here, I'll show off some of the concept art I found with a quick google serach) I was stuck with a let's play from the start. Haha, I have a feeling my battle with Hugo would look like this: Me: *defend* Hugo: *defend* -repeat for as long as everyone around me will allow-
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Post by Plant Feathers on May 10, 2013 9:16:59 GMT -5
Okay, now here's a weird/creepy thought. What if she was somehow watching the Batter the entire time, and really was one of the whispered voices. I'm liking angel!Zach. His little wings are cute. ^_^ I'm kinda glad he didn't end up with a sword, though. Then it would have been like, "Is there something I can interest you in?" *fiddles with sword* Batter/Me: " . . . I wasn't going to, but yeah, ok, don't hurt me, I'll take the lot." (That or I'd be like, "Zach, buddy, trade me! All I've got is this lousy bat!") Ha! It's like a metapod vs. metapod battle! XD
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Sheepwood
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Sheep shouldn't smoke...
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Post by Sheepwood on May 10, 2013 14:48:49 GMT -5
Hello yes I like Off. Though I don't think I'd be able to handle playing it. The atmosphere of the game, which is really set up VERY well, would be all too much for me. I had to skip over some parts when watching it! I might go back and watch some of those parts, though. We'll see. Also I'd vomit feels all over the floor. I mean, I've already done that upon watching a few LPs of it but I'd probably do it even more by playing the game myself. I really like the Judge, he's a cutie and I can't help but feel bad for him... Especially seeing him on the roof of the Library.... UUGH CUTE KITTY WITH VICIOUS TEETH. I also like Enoch. That sick SICK man. I don't know why, but... I really do like him. He's sO RIDICULOUS. So yeah, hey hey I have theories too! One theory is that the Batter still cares for his family. Reading some of the words he shares with The Queen, we know SHE still loves him, but I can see some underlying tones of regret and love for her. I tend to think that his purification of the world is his way of "fixing" it. He knows that everything has gone downhill, that the views of the Zone Guardians have been marred and destroyed. Either going insane... Power hungry... Or just having good intentions with terrible actions. He knows he needs to fix the world, but the Queen isn't helping, Hugo is just a child and he doesn't understand/doesn't know how to fix anything... And maybe the only way he knows how to fix things is by "purifying" everything. He does tell the Judge "It's better this way," when confronted. Good intentions, but completely misguided, much like Enoch with sugar and the Elsens. My other theory is that the Batter used to be human, but due to his intentions, he's become a monster. He can hide his monstrous form from most people, such as Japhet and the Elsens, but it would seem that there are many characters who can see the Batter for who he is. The way the Judge talks at the beginning, asking if he was a specter, leads me to believe this. Also, Dedan confuses the Batter for a specter in a similar manner. Towards the end, Sugar refers to the Batter as a terrifying large ducky not once, but twice. His face as a monster kinda looks like a big duck bill... With uh... Teeth. Yeah. Or maybe she's just high, it's really hard to tell with her.......... OR it could be that he SLOWLY turns into a monster as he destroys lives and purifies Zones, but others are oblivious to this. I mean, he is canonically white, as shown by an illustration by Mortis himself (though it's hard to see...): So... It would be easy for someone to confuse him for a ghost, what with his white skin and all. Even though... Most of the other characters have white skin... ... They need more sun, golly. Well that's my two cents about the whole deal. I want to draw more fanart of the game but sometimes I feel like I shouldn't. The whole game is one big conflicting emotion for meeeee~~ EDIT: WOW I checked out that Batter blog that was linked and holey cheese is it amazing. I LOVE how they draw the Batter and his teeth are really neat looking and just the entire portrayal of the batter is superb! Haha, the portrayal here is really close to how I portray him myself! Plus the art style is just... Wow. ;u;
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Post by Plant Feathers on May 10, 2013 22:03:15 GMT -5
That's pretty much my headcanon on why the Batter started going insane. Especially when you think about how, before all of this, it looked like they were living in some kind of bleak post-apocalyptic world and were hoping to start new with a utopia. How much would that have hurt to have your hopes riding on a beautiful new world and then see things slowly crumbling into the state it eventually reaches?
Ah! Yes! They did say those things, didn't they! All the little hints went in one ear and out the other for me, and I had forgotten about them until you said that. So, I guess he was a monster from the beginning of the game? Weird. <_<
#batter blog - I went browsing through it and then hit that picture of the "door to door purification salesmen" and totally lost it. XD I don't know what it was about that idea that tickled me so much, but oh man, I laughed so hard.
Random - I was playing in RPG Maker today, and was testing out how to bring in custom background tiles, and grabbed a random OFF tile set to try it. Once I brought the tile set into the game and really looked at it, I was like, "Wait... what is that?... I'm not really recognizing what that is... is that... is that the furnace!?" *scrolls through the rest of the tiles. Finds dead bodies* "Gosh dangit! Why did I have to grab THAT tile set!?" XD
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